Telling friends and family.

[X]

It's time to encourage some more discussion hereabouts.

So I pose a question, more as a general topic wheein people can hopefully find support and reaffirmation of their views, be they athiestic, agnostic, diestic, or thiestic.

More to the point, how do you feel somebody who has adopted one of these viewpoints go about telling friends and family who may not be supportive.

Discuss.

[Brennan]

Well both sides of the family are Jehovah's Witnesses and are devout believers. I would question and challenge their views and teachings. It didn’t surprise them when I eventually said I was an Atheist.

I’d recommend having a discussion with them, in some way shape or form, about if they think that their particular viewpoint is morally wrong (e.g. a Christian thinking an Atheist has no moral standards).

[trevor]

Kind of a funny story... it wasn't until I told my parents that I was making an secular student group that I found out what they believe.  I was actually kind of surprised that one of my parents does believe in god (though doesn't go to church, etc).  Unlike some of my other exploits, MASH was never brought up at the next big family supper (some of my extended family does attend church regularly).

So how do you tell unsupportive family and friends?  In my opinion, you don't.  Or at least, you don't bring it up.  The idea of secularism and separation of church and state is to ensure that religion never enters into a discussion that it doesn't belong in.  So, I would suggest against confronting a religious friend to tell them you are not a believer.

However, that doesn't mean you should never say anything.  If someone says something to rubs you the wrong way, you should openly question it.  For example, were someone to say that I've been blessed, I would adamantly deny it.  If someone says that they will pray for me, I will politely request they pray for someone else.  You have to take social norms and other's feelings into account, of course; if someone says grace before a meal, I'm not going to stop them and start eating, but at the same time, I won't bow my head or say 'amen.'

It's cynical and self-centered, but I usually just think about what I want to get from a relationship.  In most cases, a conversation about religion is interesting and possibly educational, so if the topic is brought up, I am happy to talk about it.  Similarly, to bring it up myself is as likely to offend as it is to further a bond.

In short, I don't care if family and friends know about my lack of belief.  But, if it comes up, I won't censor myself.

[Katie]

With my family, it wasn't too much of a problem. My parents did give me a bit of flak at first. They are those kind of 'United Church of Canada' people that never go to church or talk about religion at all. They just expected me to never talk about it, or just kind of follow them. To them, at least back then, atheism was a bit taboo, seen as a little too 'extreme'.

Which is kind of odd, because my sister actually informed me a while ago that my dad is actually an atheist. Kind of weird, as he was the one that was giving me the most flak. My mom and I have had a few discussions about religion lately, and I find that she agrees with me more than I originally thought.

My extended family aren't a big problem either. I've never told most of them outright, although they probably picked up on a few hints across the years. Out of all of them, the only ones who are somewhat religious are my great aunt, and older cousin. They only occasionally went to church for the social aspect anyways. The rest of them are kind of apathetic, with one of my uncles being the only other outright atheist. My other uncle is mainly just a pretty staunch social conservative that isn't really religious. My younger cousin, his son, used to be Catholic due to his strict mother's influence, but now hovers on some sort of 'All paths are one' kick.

So, I never felt a need to drag it in. No one offends me, so to bring it up is kind of off-topic and weird. I've only told my atheist uncle, and my younger cousin. If someone decides to say something, I'll come clean and speak my piece without trying to offend anyone.

So I would say, tell close family, hold out on extended family. If nobody askes, don't tell. It might make you seem pushy.

[cold]

My parents are old school Christians bordering on fundamentalism.  I think my active sex life rubbed them the wrong way as I was kicked out 9 months ago. My 3 brothers follow in their footsteps with a more watered down version of my parents belief system. 

Confrontation on any religious issues has always been disastrous, and I've come to understand it's not my place in the universe to try and change someones belief. Religion is such a touchy issue, and most people either don't have an opinion or feel very strongly about their position.

Not to offend this group, but I've long since excepted that any position on God other then "I don't know" would be illogical, so I don't really bother bringing it up, I have better things to do, their is no point in sitting around and bitching about it. If people wanna argue the virtues of religion, I say let them, I won't let life pass me by on something so subjective.

[trevor]

No offense taken.  I agree with you for the most part, trying changing someone's beliefs is a waste of time, and yes, there are tons of more interesting things in the world to talk about.  The problem being that religion stifles discussion on those interesting topics.  As far as activism is concerned, our group really only exists to make sure religion isn't getting involved in discussions it doesn't belong in.

[cold]

My understanding is that it's been removed from public schools and the like, out of curiosity, what sorts of discussions is religion butting it's head in?

[brian]

Actually, I was talking to someone at the Humanist Association meeting the other day and she said that her son doesn't stand for the Lord's Prayer in school (it was a public school in Selkirk if I remember correctly).  It shocked me to hear that that sort of thing is going on in Canada in 2007.  It's the kind of thing you expect to hear happen in some rural area of one of those states that voted for Bush, not in our own backyards.

And you can easily see south of the border that religion is trying to get back in, with intelligent design and abstinance-only sex education.  The first is ridiculous, and the second is promoting some rather dangerous misinformation to youth.

Also there are a lot of political issues these days with religion getting involved in an agressive manner trying to promote traditionalism over tolerance, as we have seen recently with the debate over same-sex marriage.

[Steve]

On the subject of prayer in schools:  I think this is more of a relic of tradition rather than actual 'religious practice' per se.  When I was in grade school we used to sing God Save the Queen, and to my knowledge this isn't done anymore.  Both of these are articles of a bygone era.  However I think a school singing God Save the Queen today would cause way less trouble than saying the Lord's Prayer.  I think it should cause more.  I don't acknowledge any monarch, figurehead or not.

In regards to some other language used ( You are blessed, etc.):  I think this is more of an expression that has entered common parlance and doesn't really carry a religious meaning.  I can feel blessed in the sense that I have received something from someone who is not a 'god'. 

As for telling family and my community that I consider myself a humanist...that would NOT go over well.  The members of my family and community are unbelievably conservative, to the point of being offensive.  I can't even tell them my girlfriend is Chinese, my grandfather would likely eject me from the family, and the scorn I would receive from my father would drive me out of my home.  The point in which I became completely disgusted with the hypocrisy of my church was when the parishoners startes signing petitions to the government to ban gay marriage and limit gay rights. 

I keep my personal beliefs quietly to myself.  I have better things to do than to be burnt at the stake by people who still think that "some folk shouldn't be allowed to vote". 

-S- 

[january]

My family doesn't care about what I believe. But they are not willing to discuss what they believe. I mean, my grandmother is so happy I'm an atheist. She feels like she successfully saved me from a life of religious indoctrination. I think I would have figured it out on my own, frankly. But thanks Oma.

My parents are not Church attendees, and I don't think my dad was ever baptized. But...I can't discuss God or anything metaphysical with them because they will roll their eyes.

I find it very hard to 'discuss' religion with people who actually are religious. They feel defensive, I feel frustrated, and no one's mind ever gets changed. Or they change their minds eventually, after letting ideas marinate, but it's never the result of one conversation. I had a very close friend tell me, at the age of 18 mind you, that I was 'going to Hell' because I didn't recognize God, Jesus, and whatever. Like, a very good friend believed that I was damned. She meant it 100%. It's a strange feeling- I felt betrayed that she would think that of me, but then of course I didn't believe in hell. But she *did*, and it made me a little sick that she loved me as her friend, but fully expected me to rot for all eternity.

But now we're friends and stuff...She doesn't seem nearly as staunch in her convictions. It's not something I like to bring up. If someone else brings it up though, I'll probably give my opinion. I really don't like to prod and offend others. I'm way too polite in person.

I'm not sure if it's a great analogy, but it reminds me of why I don't tell my family and certain others about my being a stripper. It might take a burden off me, and it'd sure be easier not to lie about things so much...But doing so would only serve to hurt them. They would gain absolutely nothing from that knowledge. So I abstain from discussing it to protect them. I find when people are absolutely assured in whatever religious belief, rational argument will never dissuade them. You will only upset them.

[ebell]

I am absoletely new here (this is my first post).  I promise they won't all be this long, I just find this SO refreshing.  I've always been certain of where my beliefs lie (and where they don't), and the majority of my family is open to discussing this subject.  In fact, one side of my family is made up solely of atheists, and the other side are believers who have mostly come around to the 'live and let live' school of thought.  It's the place where I grew up that was my obstacle.

I went to school in a VERY religious town here in Manitoba, and was even sent to Sunday school for the first while.  By the tenth grade (which I started at age 13), I was long finished with church, and I was already furious that I was expected to participate every morning in not only the lord's prayer, but also, a bible reading.  I went to the principal and told him that I wanted to 'opt out' of these morning sessions, as they were not only presumptuous, but in my opinion, somewhat offensive.  I couldn't understand how they saw fit to presume that everyone believed (or should believe) the same thing they did.  I felt it unfair not only to myself as an atheist, but also to people of any other religion who have the same right to go to the same school and supposedly, the freedom to believe what they want to believe.

All through high school, I stayed out of the classroom every morning (literally alone in the hallway waiting) while the rest of the herd took in their daily bread for 10 minutes.  It was one of the most liberating experiences of my entire life.  I've always felt that I have as much right to my own beliefs (and disbeliefs) as everyone else does, so it's never really been a problem for me to express that.  Of course it's done respectfully of what others believe, but I won't pretend to be someone I'm not...not for anyone, or anything.  It only becomes an issue when somebody tries to impose thier beliefs on me, and/or imply that mine are WRONG.  I respect everyone's right to believe whatever they feel is true, and I deserve that same respect in return.

I may have had an easy time of making my beliefs known to my family, but I know very well what it's like to see someone's jaw drop when they find out you're an atheist.  As if to say "you're such a nice person...you can't be one of those godless heathens!!".  Anyway, my point is that even if we must face some opposition in exchange for expressing our beliefs, we must always remember that it is our right human beings and as Canadians to do so.  I think feeling apprehensive about being 'openly' atheist is as good as agreeing with those who would say you are doing something wrong.  Granted it's a touchy subject which (especially where family and friends are concerned) must be handled with a certain degree of sensitivity, but we certainly shouldn't feel the need to hide anything.

[trevor]

Hear hear, ebell.  Interesting story about your high school!  I grew up going to a public catholic school myself, saying the lord's prayer every morning; I was too young to have formed strong opinions about belief.  Apparently this used to be mandatory in Manitoba's public schools; check out this article.  Pretty scary.

Also, welcome!  If you want to tell us a bit more about yourself, feel free to introduce yourself in the Introductions thread.